Paul Gadzikowski

So long as it's not Rose who's somehow magically gained a new face... Because if Moffat brings her back, I'll stop watching.

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scarfman

Given Moffat's flip comment at the time of Journey's End ("clever way to get rid of a clingy girlfriend") and how Season 2010 was Season 2005 done over Moffat's way, I have zero suspicion that this Idris will turn out to be Rose.

Romana is the popular speculation, but I hope she's Susan.

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I'd be surprised if it's Susan - given Big Finish are using her in another of the Eighth Doctor audios next year.

I can live quite happily with it being Romana.

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Gaiman's comments about "The War Games" have me intrigued -- "'take up a plot point' from the WAR GAMES." Seriously? Pick up on a forty year-old story? The one that introduced the Time Lords and their society?

(Yes, I realize there's the Monk prior to "The War Games," but he doesn't indicate where he and the Doctor are from or what their society is like.)

I trust Moffat to bring back the Time Lords in an intelligent manner.

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I trust Moffat and his team of writers, that is. :)

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arib.livejournal.com

A plot point from War Games could be another exiled Time Lord.

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Just as long as Suranne Jones isn't playing the Rani. :)

(Actually, I don't think she can. I've heard that Pip and Jane Baker have said no to the new series using any of their toys.)

There's a rumor posted here, in the midst of an article on Jones' casting as Idris, that Gaiman's script was rumored to bring back Romana.

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Would you describe the Rani as an old friend? Because I certainly wouldn't!

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Idris could be the War Chief. No, seriously. :)

Another possibility, picking up on "The War Games," is that the story goes into the Doctor's reasons for leaving Gallifrey, picking up on both "The War Games" (where he's put on trial) and "The Big Bang" (where he tells Amelia some of the tale). Idris wouldn't necessarily have to be a Time Lord.

And now that I've typed out "Idris" a few times, I tell myself it's a very good thing that Moffat isn't RTD, otherwise people would be falling all over themselves to prove that "Idris" is a corruption of "TARDIS."

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I'd probably call her a "frenemy." She's not outright evil like the Master, but she's not good, either. :)

It just seems that fandom has its knickers in a twist about the Rani coming back. I've even heard people say that Rani on Sarah Jane is actually the Rani, as completely ludicrous as that is! :)

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redneckgaijin.livejournal.com

There is one other possibility.

I watched War Games all the way through for the first time two weeks ago. (I saw a handful of episodes when I was eight- the first Doctor Who that I watched which I can identify. There was something before, but I've forgotten it.) At the end, as Whovians all know, Zoe and Jamie were sent back to their own times (6A notwithstanding) with their memories wiped.

Zoe's native time was the vaguely-defined 21st Century- not all that long into our current RL future.

It's not all that much a stretch to speculate that the Doctor's "now" is catching up with Zoe, and that their two paths will cross. (They already have done in the novels, I'm told, but that doesn't count.)

Of course, if they want a Zoe about the same age as the one that travelled with the Doctor, they're going to have to RECAST her...

... which might be the thing.

And it ties in as well with the mention below of "picking up a plot point from War Games."

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Whut?! I can't even begin to process that bit of nonsense...

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Really? That's depressing. *sigh*

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alienfish.livejournal.com

'cuz it's not like there's a female Gallifreyan wandering about. Jenny, say.

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kestrel-h.livejournal.com

I kinda hope he doesn't bring the Time Lords back, don't really know why I hope that but yer...

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truthmaker

I seem to remember hearing a rumor that came out stating that the last scene in TDD (where Jenny comes back to life) was written and included at the Moff's request.

Seems an awful long way to go for a character you'll never use again.

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truthmaker

I think the real question, and it's not something we will know until the episode airs, is whether Idris is the characters actual name, or just s placeholder to cover up some spoiler.

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Oo! Oo! Oo! *Hops in his chair like Arnold Horshack*

The Meddling Monk!

He's like the Doctor in that he ultimately wants to help, but less morally sticky about how that help manifests. AND my memory is that he was trapped, but otherwise unhurt during their conflicts, PLUS they never established that they /can't/ genderswap during regeneration.

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crumplysnorkack.livejournal.com

Weird thing is, I did read something about Idris being a young woman, but from what I gather, it's a male name.

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As much as I love fandom as a culture, sometimes I just wanna slap it for being stupid. Might just as well call Clyde "Davros as a kid", for all the sense it makes.

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It's not all that much a stretch to speculate that the Doctor's "now" is catching up with Zoe, and that their two paths will cross. (They already have done in the novels, I'm told, but that doesn't count.)

I don't know about the novels, but Big Finish has done it recently in the audios.

Of course, if they want a Zoe about the same age as the one that travelled with the Doctor, they're going to have to RECAST her...

I'd be completely okay with that. I don't think Suranne Jones looks much like Wendy Padbury, but I don't suppose she'd really have to; to most people watching, Zoe would be a completely new character.

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Check out The Writer's Tale; RTD credits Moffat with the suggestion to keep Jenny alive.

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truthmaker

There is a reference to this on Jenny's page @tardis.wiki but it sadly fails to cite a source. I can keep looking, though, if you like.

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It was never said if Susan was a Time Lady or just a Gallifreyan, was it? Somewhere along the line I got the idea that only the Time Lords could regenerate, as a function of their ability to pilot TARDISes, etc. Everyone else (I thought) lived fairly mundane lives, biologically, aging and eventually expiring as all life does.

Kinda like living in Oxford and only Professors and other high-ranking thinky-types being permitted a pension, everyone else has to earn money the old fashioned way. And it's hard to imagine that a Gallifreyan plumber would be given that kind of benefit, no matter HOW bad the pipes may be clogged.

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truthmaker

And that would likely be the source for the reference on tardis.wiki

I really should read that, but I can't get past the fact it was written by RTD.

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pbristow.livejournal.com

Huh? "Taraforming"? As in "The Androids Of..." ? [IS CONFUSED]

The bit about Moffat saying "you can't kill her off" comes from RTD's own lips, in the Confidential, IIRC. It doesn't necessarily mean Moff wants to use her as a character though; It could just be he thought that was too downbeat an ending. But there's also sense in leaving a useful character alive out there somewhere, even if you don't immediately have plans to use her.

A "tight rein" (or reign, both are apprpriate! =:o} ) is not the same thing as being closed to suggestions. It was RTD's *decision*, and he decided to go along with Moffat's suggestion/plea.

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chocolateteacup.livejournal.com

Anyone thought it might be Jenny? Stephen Moffat apparently persuaded the writer of The Doctor's Daughter not to kill her off. Not sure you could really call her an 'old friend' though.

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You can also claim that because the timeline is different, the factors leading to the person the Doctor previously knew as Zoe have changed as well. Ergo, a different (though subtly similar) Zoe. Kinda the way an Elseworlds Superman might not be the Clark Kent we all know and love, but still hold that place in the flow of events.

We can call it the "J.J. Abrams Excuse". ^_^

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scarfman

It was never spelled out that there's a distinction between Gallifreyans and Time Lords either. Not in screen sources. I can think of a few lines of dialog that imply it, mostly from Invasion of Time, and perhaps living in a (nominally) egalitarian culture I miss the subtext. But the point is, I see no reason for a default assumption that Susan isn't a Time Lord.

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scarfman

It was written and included, as I heard the story, because Moffat said to Davies to have her die after one episode was "so Star Trek". "At his request" is an exaggeration.

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scarfman

I think bristow is confused because the process you're referring to is spelled "terraforming".

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mewiet.livejournal.com

Yes... Jenny didn't regenerate. The taraforming gases are what gave her life. At least according to the letter I saw posted from Greenhorn.

Well, that's up for debate, I suppose. I believe the energy Jenny breathed out looked like The Doctor's regeneration energy. Until and unless Jenny comes back and terraform is/n't confirmed in canon, I believe that the energy she released was not terraform energy, but regeneration energy, just like we saw Ten breathing out in "The Christmas Invasion" and Eleven breathing out in "The Eleventh Hour." If Ten can grow back a new hand within the firs fifteen hours of his regeneration, then I don't see why Jenny can't repair a bullet hole within the first fifteen hours of her initial "regeneration."

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mewiet.livejournal.com

I hope not. Not that wouldn't love for them to bring back Jenny - I've been waiting for it - but if they bring her back, I'd like to see Georgia Moffett as Jenny for as long as possible, since they made a point of showing that she didn't die and also didn't regenerate. Georgia was a great actress and I think she would make a great companion for when the time comes for Amy and Rory to go back home. (Though I wouldn't mind Jenny and Amy meeting once before that, since Jenny is his real daughter and Amy, I've always thought, is kind of a daughter-like figure to The Doctor; the second chance that he never got with Jenny. Plus, the trouble they'd get into would be brilliant! I'd also love to see Jenny meet River.)

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Wasn't there a whole subculture that lived outside the cities, shunning all technology outside of stone knives and bear skins (sic)? Kind of a Gallifreyan Amish, but far more grumpy? Or did my brain totally invent that? (This is not sarcasm, but acknowledgment of something that has happened before when talking about such nit-picky-details. ^_^)

Whether or not there is a distinction between Gallifreyans and Gallifreyans who are Time Lords (don't know exactly where I got the idea, but I've never been able to shake it), I do agree that as far as I know Susan has not been specified on either side of the line. The fact that she left the show before Gallifrey was introduced is a fairly good foundation for that, if a tad meta.

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mewiet.livejournal.com

That may be the writer's opinion/intent was, but since it wasn't explained as such in the episode, that doesn't make the explanation canon. And she did NOT inhale it. The energy dissipated into the air, it did not reverse back through her lips or nostrils, nor did they move to suck the energy back into her body. It's only after the energy disappeared did she breathe in.

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Well, what do you expect when they gave her the same name as a memorable character with the ability to change her appearance?

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The Outsiders rejected Time Lord society, but there was no mention of whether they had any biodata enhancements that didn't come standard for all Gallifreyans. The Two Doctors establishes that Time Lords have the Rassilon Imprimatur added to their DNA that lets them safely pilot their TARDISes, and the spin-offs established that regeneration was added by Rassilon. There's also the fact that in The Deadly Assassin, guards die when shot with stasers, and Runcible (a news reporter who went to the Academy, which implies he's a Time Lord) dies when stabbed with a spear, which confuses things. It's possible that stasers, being Gallifreyan weapons, are designed to stop people regenerating, but the spear thing is weird seeing as how Runcible was a contemporary of the Doctor and thus can't reasonably have been on his last life at the time.

So in conclusion, I think there's a difference, but it's most clearly spelled out in the spin-offs, which some people don't consider canon for some reason.

In other words, it's Doctor Who. Pick your own explanation.

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cosmiccoz.livejournal.com

Why is everyone discussing the story in terms of Moffat? This is Neil Gaiman's episode, and though Moff is head writer, he's not the one writing the story.

Also, Gaiman said his episode was originally slated for Series 5. Which probably means "Idris" will not be a game-changer or the earth shattering climax we imagine.

There is the teaser of, "How could a fellow Gallifreyan stoop so low?" But also, "Pay attention – It’s not really her."

I wonder if this will be one big hoodwink.

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The aliens in whichever episode got rid of Ben and Polly were stealing human faces after their own had been lost (I haven't seen the story in question but that plot sounds utterly hilarious). Mawdryn Undead established that Time Lord regeneration technology could be stolen. The Zygons could shapeshift. The Foamasi could disguise themselves as humans in a similar way to the Slitheen. The Eternals could take human form, but according to RTD's story of the Time War in one of the articles, they fled this realm due to the bloodshed. More recently, the Vinvocci had shimmers.

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It looked (and sounded) nothing like the regeneration effect they were using in RTD's era, it looked exactly like the terraform gas (presumably she'd inhaled it when the Doctor smashed the globe), and she, without any training in controlling her regeneration (not to mention it being such a delayed one - remember how Eight reacted to such a delayed regeneration), didn't change her appearance. I'm all in favour of Death of the Author, but it's pretty clear this was the terraforming gas.

Why terraforming gas resurrects Time Lords is another matter entirely.

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