The Woman in White and friend

[scarfman]

Either the Woman in White or the other dissenting Time Lord is Leela, the only character sympathetic to the Doctor last seen on Gallifrey. (The other of the two might be anyone.)

Comments

[melinaswiftwind.livejournal.com]

You know the male Time Lord could be Andred

[scarfman]

Wait a minute, backstop me please: I thought both dissenting Time Lords were female. Am I wrong?

[trinalin.livejournal.com]

They looked female to me. Could one be Romana? (Heh, how about Romana and the Rani? Heh heh.)

[drake57.livejournal.com]

Hmmmm Leela, didn't think of that. I was expecting Rusty to say it was the Doctor's mother.

[redneckgaijin.livejournal.com]

You've made the point in your fanfic that there's nothing preventing a Time Lord from changing genders with a regeneration...

... just saying.

[scarfman]

Yes, but we're not discussing my fanfiction, we're discussing Russell Davies'.

[thehornedgod.livejournal.com]

Hmmmm Leela, didn't think of that. I was expecting Rusty to say it was the Doctor's mother.

Well, they're not mutually exclusive.

[emiofbrie.livejournal.com]

Personally, I think she's Susan.

She's really the only one who would have considered herself "lost" and "left behind" by the Doctor, when you think about it. Also, enough time had passed on Gallifrey that she would have regenerated of natural cause by the end of the Time War.

[glow-boy.livejournal.com]

I think the woman in white is ex chancellor Flavia. RTD has mentioned her a number of times in commentaries usually in relation to a certain piece of music which I think we did hear in her last apperance.

[colorofsakura.livejournal.com]

Julie Gardner confirmed that the woman in white is supposed to be The Doctor's mother.

[zemiron.livejournal.com]

I do not like this.

[verlaine.livejournal.com]

They were probably both Time Ladies that Theta "Shagger" Sigma slept with. In this incarnation, the Doctor has never been able to resist anything in a skirt.

[blinovitch.livejournal.com]

Because she's not Penelope Gate?

[youngwilliam.livejournal.com]

I half suspected this during the scene, but I rather like the fan-theory that it was his grand-daughter, Susan.

And what would the Doctor's mom be called, anyway? The Mother?

[ugerchucker.livejournal.com]

Hope he never meets Jamie again then.

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

[qkellie.livejournal.com]

Ew, no. Lack of creativity fail.

[uncledark.livejournal.com]

If it wasn't said onscreen (or otherwise within the fiction) then it doesn't count.

And, seriously, it doesn't count all that much if it is, given how flexible the writers are with past precedent on this show.

[angriest.livejournal.com]

Also when Wilf asks who she was, the Doctor looks too pained to answer and glances specifically at Donna - which suggests she has to either be (a) a future semi-Time Lord Donna (unlikely) or the Doctor's own granddaughter.

[sparkymark.livejournal.com]

Both "The Times" and "The Guardian" reviewers assumed she was the the Doctor's mother, so either it was in the press pack, or both reviewers independently showed the lack of imagination that RTD parodied in the "The Sound of Drums" regarding the Master's identity.

[sparkymark.livejournal.com]

No she doesn't. She speculates it. She's not involved in the creative side.

[charliequinn.livejournal.com]

I thought it might have been Romana. If that really was Rassilon, he would have to depose her to become President.

But Leela does make a lot more sense.

(BUT ARRGHH DON'T GET ME STARTED THAT COULD NOT HAVE BEEN RASSILON ARRGGHHH).

[charliequinn.livejournal.com]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

I shall cling to my Looooooooooooms!!

[rengeek.livejournal.com]

How did Susan get back to Gallifrey from Earth?

[rengeek.livejournal.com]

I don't see why it couldn't possibly be Rassilon. Its vertainly conceivable if they resurrected the Master to be their ultimate warrior, they'd resurrect the greatest Time Lord ever to lead them.

[scarfman]

How did the Master get back from Earth to Gallifrey?

[shugotenchi.livejournal.com]

Personally, I assumed it was Susan.

[scarfman]

[Rassilon] would have to depose [Romana] to become President

I say that's a fallacy. There's nothing in the screen source to say Romana ever came back from E-Space, let alone ascended to the High Council Presidency; it's rather in tie-ins. Tie-ins aren't allowed to bear on screen continuity per the BBC charter, or instead of inventing the Time War Davies would have used whatever that was that happened in the EDAs. Davies may have, so I hear, made stray comments indicating that Romana was President during the Time War; but he also made stray commentes that he'd not bring back the Master.

Besides, what's so unlikely about Rassilon deposing anyone to become President? Suppose Barack Obama went up for reelection against the reincarnation of George Washington; who here thinks Obama would win?

[charliequinn.livejournal.com]

That's true, I was just saying that Romana would have been annoyed about it, so could have been the Lady in White.

[bewarethespork.livejournal.com]

I assumed it was Romana, and that she'd been deposed but allowed to stay on as an advisor as a sort of punishment/humiliation thing. (But then, until it was stated otherwise on screen, I was happily assuming that the President was either Borusa or the Valeyard. :P)

[scarfman]

You can always decide that the Doctor called him Rassilon ironically. I may.

[bewarethespork.livejournal.com]

The whole scene read like a bad fanfic to me. You know how an author who doesn't know much backstory will throw in whatever references they do have to prove that they know something about canon? It's like RTD went, "hmmm, what can I throw in from canon related to Gallifrey that I haven't already...oh, I know, Rassilon, everyone will recognise that name, cool shout-out to the Classic geeks, this'll work nicely!" And that just rubs me up the wrong way in so many different ways.

[(Anonymous)]

Another theory might be the Woman in White is the White Guardian. Obviously this being had greater power than Rassilon as "she" was able to communicate with Wilf through the time lockwhen Rassilon could not break the time lock. Also she knew the potential future as she told Wilf to bring the gun for the Doctor so that the Doctor could use the gun to break the link. This suggests "she" wasn't a Time Lord but was in fact a being even more powerful.

[bewarethespork.livejournal.com]

You know, even if that's not the "right" answer, I still kind of like it. :)

[alienfish.livejournal.com]

Well, let's start with one point. Forget our various fanfictions.

The Time Lords are Gallifreyan. That rules out Leela, that rules out Adric. When I saw the man hold out his hand in the metal fist, I thought "Rassilon" and it turned out that was who he was.

So I think one of the two women was Susan. Perhaps the other was Romana. Or even The Rani. They just seem the most likely. But there are so many Gallifreyans that it would be nice if they weren't characters we've already seen.

[scarfman]

The Time Lords are Gallifreyan. That rules out Leela, that rules out Adric.

Though it never aired, the contemporary showrunners' plan to write Ace out by sending her to the Time Lord Academy takes the force away from your argument for me.

[alienfish.livejournal.com]

But she got killed off, didn't she? *sniffle*

And officially Leela took a Gallifreyan as mate. At any rate, if they declare who these women are then we can say "Ah, okay!" or argue about it until we can no longer type.

[scarfman]

Killed off? Neither Ace nor Leela were ever killed off onscreen (and tie-ins mayn't count toward screen continuity per the BBC charter).

I don't think we'll ever find out who the Weeping Time Lords were. At least, I don't think we ought to.